Nobody knew except for Sylvanas. You can hardly present lore events as anything dangerous in game made for every noob on this planet. Once we put Bolvar in that seat, he should have started marching them all into giant pits filled with lamp oil. Yes they would over run us due to the simple fact that the higher ranking undead would continually resurrect every corpse they could find the scourge was already massive and icecrown was a corpse farm at that point. Why must there always be a lichking. TLDR: "There must always be a Lich King" was a lie, Bolvar was already a DK by the time we arrive at the top of ICC, and it was just a plan the Lich King made in case all things failed. Wasnt the whole point of the pre-patch event to take care of the Scourge for good? The plot point about there needing to always be a Lich King was always dumb. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. There Must Always Be A Lich King (Commander / EDH MTG Deck) There Must Always Be A Lich King Commander / EDH Multiplayer Reanimator Theme/Gimmick UB (Dimir) KingRamz Group Ordering Creature (30) 1x Blood Artist 1x Bone Shredder 1x Butcher of Malakir 1x Cadaver Imp 1x Coffin Queen 1x Consuming Aberration 1x Diregraf Captain 1x Disciple of Bolas Just the cinematics don't tell the whole story. Really sounds like Sargeras 2.0. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Its rather issue that game cuttering to casuals like i am talking uber casuals here. I remember cringing so hard when I saw Bolvar become the Lich King back in Wrath of the Lich King. Alongside icons for the Forsaken Heritage Armor and other new sets is a special inclusion - Arfus, the spectral puppy featured in the Knights of the Frozen Throne expansion for Hearthstone appears to be coming to World of Warcraft! I mean all of this seems to lay more interesting ground for the plot than just having Bolvar dealing with the corrupting influence of the Lich King. It should be obvious why. The story is very well written if you take the time to read it, and actually research the story. because otherwise Sylvanas would have had too many potential Forsaken recruits. Also, its a good idea to have back up plan if the Legion or the Old Gods take over. The Scourge was incredibly powerful and could've, without too much difficulty, taken over all of Azeroth (or at least most of the civilized areas would've been destroyed). Its called fire, or holy magic in this case. Bolvar is the next Lich King. I have been thinking about the defeat of the Lich King in Icecrown Citadel, the Lich King during WOTLK has this master plan to gather the best heroes of Azeroth, and when they finally went to face him they would die, giving him the mightiest army the world had ever seen. Trying to look around to find a house or a place to keep me warmth. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Sylvanas Windrunner destroyed the Lich King, and . 17 Just interesting and not a serious thing 18 Godhood 19 Arthas dominant? This makes it so unbelievable boring to go back to old expansions. I theorize it could be because there are troops he still cant control. (Horns begin to play as highlord Tirion Fording picks up the crown) Correct me if I am wrong, but didnt Nur'zul control the Undead fine on his own in WC3? Lich King Miniature 3D Printing Info. Dont worry, the mechagnomes can offer a solution. I mean is there an in universe explanation as to why he couldn't simply "shut them off" or at the very least command the scourge to walk into some lava or something? If they had never put the crown on bolvar, sure there would have been casualties from crazed scourge, but without a LK, more wouldnt be made, so once the existed scourge were wiped out, theyd be gone. Story wise there should be no scourge left that needs commandment. Where exactly that happend. Its bad writing to assume a rampart and fractured scourge could achieve more than whatever Arthas could have told them to do but didnt because reasons. We handled the rampant scourge in the prepatch pretty well like Ive always though it will go down. 14 Alignment 15 Bolvar and the Frozen Throne 16 There must Always be a Lich King? So now begins my speculation. Because there will be no Lich king to hold them in line. Reddit, Inc. 2023. Of course, everything starts with the very beginning. I think its very likely. And when Sylvanas broke the Helm of domination from Bolvar pre shadowlands. Looks like ol' LK has fallen on some hard times.Sources:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6rIYcHEhYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAIrj_Vqdfc Here is the print information: Anycubic Mega i3. Seventh cosmic power. The Lich King came because the Jailer bound Nerzhuls sould into the Helm of Domination and send it to Azeroth to have a link between the Shadowlands and Azeroth. Of course its poor writing, there was no lich king before Nerzhul either. Uther's reason doesnt seem to make much sense, because what did the undead do before the Lich King was even created? Have you read the novels? On a minor digression, makes me think that SWTOR writers might have been inspired by this when they wrote the reasoning behind why the Sith Empire was willing to sign a truce. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. At the time Scourge had still lots of numbers in Northrend & Plaguelands etc. As such the scourge and the lich king are but a momentary blight, so it stands to reason that after Arthas was defeated, that it would be better to simply purge the remaining undead forces that plagued Azeroth. Happiness-burning-blade March 9, 2022, 7:52am #2 Poor writing. My question is if Bolvar is still the Lich King and is he still the one maintaining control over the scourge or did that all end when Sylvanas shattered the Helm? That would have made for a better even if a less controversial storyline. This taskforce would presumably be a joint Horde-Alliance force, and I'd imagine they'd, ideally, be politically independent of the two factions (while receiving funding+troops). That given incident with Sylvanas, in particular, made Bolvar realize how dangerous the power of the undead was should they fall into the wrong hands, and he resolved to not only contain the Scourge but also guard against any intruders from the outside world who would try to steal their power for themselves. There must always be a Lich King. I am confused by this. The overwhelming number of Scourge are mindless and trapped on Northrend. What they said back in Wrath is that the Scourge would indeed be too much for Azeroth to hold back if it was let off the leash. Despite this, it was always a prison to the Lich King, and a host body was the only option for escape. Left field theory that would make this not as stupid: "There must always be a Lick King." I dont read every quests text and i dont read warcraft universe books. Lorewise, the scourge disease is virulent as fuck, the mere touch with the infection can turn you into an undead. Without the amplification of the Frozen Throne (and he was contending with Nerzhul, as well as what was left of Arthas soul, inside his own head) the Lich King didnt have the energy to extend his will across oceans anymore (but those on Northrend were fair game). There must always be a Lich King, because otherwise Sylvanas would have had too many potential Forsaken recruits. Without someone who would command it, it would raid entire world Hallicon-stormrage March 10, 2022, 4:20pm #29. From going on a rampage across Azeroth. NerZhul must have spoken or communed with the Jailer and not know about him before becoming the spirit of the lich king. King Theranas explains it the best in the Wrath of the lich king end cutscene. Arthas the remaining human part of him held back the Scourge against Ner'zhul. Below it was a dais of some sort, standing on a large gently raised mound that was covered in a dusting of snow. This is why I hated the entire premise of how we ended Wrath. Everyone in Suramar was killed by the legion and raised into undeath by Dreadlords, and this is cannon until it wasnt because reasons. Bolvar is no more, Arthas has taken over. There must always be a Lich King, because otherwise Sylvanas would have had too many potential Forsaken recruits. I never actually played WoTLK, I stopped some time back in TBC, and this bit of the plot never quite made sense to me. There is something I've never quite understood from the Lich King's nature and purpose and it's the famous qoute that "there must always be a Lich King", because the Scourge must be controlled or they will ravage the world if unleashed. Yes, there are some in the Plaguelands, but they're a small fraction of the real force and seem contained. Level of intelligence maybe? Reddit, Inc. 2023. I mean not necessarily. Baine says this when you reforge the helm of domination in torghast. They might be swept under the rug like other old content. There must always be a Lich King, else the Scourge goes mad and a massive hole opens above Azeroth leading us to the worst story Blizzard has ever written. All Bolvar needed to do was to force the Scourge to self destruct then take off the helm of domination. many wtf moments there xD, i see. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Put up walls and have the Forsaken man them- they don't need to sleep and can't be raised up to fight against their former allies. Would it be so weird that the lich king would have a plan in case he failed? Its a bit like women saying equality and then men looking the other way, but in WOW. 4 Likes Caelle-pagle March 10, 2022, 12:15pm #8 It was King Terrenas Menethil, Arthas's father, whose soul had been stuck in Frostmourne because he killed him with it. Contents 1 Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos (2002) 1.1 Cinematics 1.1.1 Introduction 1.1.2 Thrall's Vision 1.1.3 The Warning And his definitely darker tone and no longer seeming to be much of a jailer of the Scourge Either Bolvar is corrupted, or Arthas tricked us and used the Helm to dominate Bolvars mind. 13 Bolvar, the Undead? (Plus, the meta reason: were the protagonists.). I want to know why when the Lich King was losing power during WC3, the Forsaken broke off and became independent with the LK being unable to reclaim them, but when he was killed, meaning total control was lost, all the undead just waited around for him to take control again. We now know that Uther was right. At that point, I'd just be more tempted to get the armour and have some mages/warlocks teleport the stuff into the centre of a sun or a gas giant (assuming such things exist in this universe), or at least close enough that it would eventually fall into its atmosphere be crushed/melted/inaccessible. "Without its master's command, the restless scourge will become an even greater threat to this world. Privacy Policy. This has bothered me since I watched the cutscene in which Bolvar becomes the new LK, I understand what Terenas meant in that without a LK the scourge would swarm like locust across Azeroth. It comes off now as it came off back then, a cheap tool for a future repeat of the Scourge plot. Even when Arthas set out to find the runeblade, there was an implication that frostmourne was a long forgotten artifact. Zovaal apparently wanted to save us form another even bigget threat. As the name implies, the dystopian Warcraft universe largely revolves around conflict. It wouldve been a truly epic way to end the Order hall campaign Acherus suddenly warps over the Tomb of Sargeras with tons of Ziggurats and Frost Wyrms and Darion Mograine screaming how the Legion is going to be destroyed while standing on that dias and the four new Horseman leading legions of ghouls and abominations onto the Broken Shore. They can raise more, and more - and more. Today, while progressing new chapter of 9.2 campaign Sylvanas basically said "There will be no lich king. The huge yard was soon . Control must be maintained". By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Why should my raid gear from say BfA be completely useless in the first raids of SL? The reason why there had to be a lich king has been dealt with. In the Kyrian Campaign, when you help Kleia on her trial, she ferries a soul of a man who died trying to protect Redridge from the undead. Couple that with the fact that the overwhelming number of Scourge forces aren't intelligent in any sense, and seem more like feral dogs than anything. Sure there are some intelligent Scourge left here and there, but that doesn't necessarily seem to be a worry. It never made any sense for there to have to be another Lich King. From the frozen tundra of a Kings domain can a new evil be drawn forth, the Lich King has arrived in Angmar, and he has come to stay. 2023 Magic Find, Inc. All rights reserved. Or I'm missing something? All rights reserved. This subreddit is for discussions about the lore of Warcraft! I was bored and liked the song and I've always enjoyed the Arthas lore, hope you like It! Slicer: Simplify3D. To be fair though, this is the only good thing about Shadowlands to me. Privacy Policy. What of it? I call BS or PIS, but still Any thoughts? So I've taken a look at plenty of forum posts and Wikia articles, and this is what I've understood. From going on a rampage across Azeroth. That solve that. Today, while progressing new chapter of 9.2 campaign Sylvanas basically said "There will be no lich king. Plus it was a flawed argument. Find Funny GIFs, Cute GIFs, Reaction GIFs and more. the Jailer wouldnt care whether the Scourge was under control. Got literally no confirmation on this but considering its his creation and what he already did to Nerzhul. Maybe now that the crown is gone and the Jailer is dead, the souls forced to stay in the mindless scourge are free to travel to the Shadowlands. Filament: Schmelzbar Silver and Beige. My suggestion is to listen to the greatest statesman of our world and "Declare victory and leave." Granted, the story of the Forsaken should have involved Sylvanas poaching and freeing recruits from Bolvar rather than raising new ones with Val'kyr. More like we defeated the Scourge, but its still dangerous. The only sound that I could hear was the powerful blizzard. In the Crown of Wills quest, they make some reference to things in the dialogue: Thrall says: What is to stop this new helm from being used to enslave others? All rights reserved. and our Also worth noting that not all undead are created equal (See: Rotbrain Undead). The old lore was that without the Lich King to keep them in check, the sheer number of Scourge would run rampant and destroy all life on Azeroth. Every god damn group in Warcraft has a prophecy so a character can be like that Archer running-gag "just like the gipsy woman said!". Done deal. There was no reason the Scourge couldn't just be destroyed one ghoul at a time once Bolvar took the Helm of Domination, but for some reason Alliance, Horde, Ebon Blade and Argent Crusade alike declared "mission accomplished" and returned home without actually getting rid of the threat to the world. I think the main "spoilers" are quite old. I was honestly just confused and wondering, if there is any official source of explanation for this. The Patch 10.1.7 PTR is here and with it are a bunch of new icons! Also Even with Nerzhul gone after Arthas. hopefully this will be saved for 15.0. The Champions, led by Tirion Fordring, stormed Icecrown Citadel and defeated the Lich King's mightiest servants. This statement in the seem strange coming from Uther and the King. I am quite sure theyre being taken care of. I believe if they got rid of the army of undead early then there wouldnt be another future expansion based on the Scourge. Hello r/warcraftlore, this is my first post here and I'm also more of a lurker in general, so if there are any mistakes please tell me. From the frozen tundra of a. The Runeblade, Frostmourne Arthas followes Mal'Ganis to Northrend, where he meets his mentor, Muradin Bronzebeard, who was searching for the runeblade Frostmourne. Dealing with him will fix the scourge issue, then later on in the expansion we will go after Sylvanas and we will get our revenge. All rights reserved. Achievements, Pet Battles, and Transmogrification, Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Online Cardgame. now imagine an army of the undead attacking village after village, there arent enough paladins to go around cleansing everyone, 'Something's awry.' As we all know, Terenas tells Tirion that there must always be a Lich King so Bolvar takes up the responsibility of Lich King to control the scourge on Azeroth. Whats going on here? Then why the heck didnt Arthas just do that? Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. Loyal2NES 2 yr. ago Its a ruse. As we all know, Terenas tells Tirion that there must always be a Lich King so Bolvar takes up the responsibility of Lich King to control the scourge on Azeroth. Sylvanas is more interested in killing and raising people than Bolvar. They went on to add that for some reason neither of the former Lich Kings ever did but we never found out why. So what do you think, is it possible it was just a ruse? WoWs lore and writing always was mediocre at best. 21 BlizzCon 2010 22 Cathedral of darkness 23 Title 24 Eyes 25 Bolvar's Photo 26 Frost DK Artifact event 27 Class 28 You're the Best 29 Chronicles 3 Chapter 31 There must always be a Lich King In the terrified eyes of Huskies, Binghua barely stopped in front of it, and the icy cold directly froze Huskies' tears. Or a Lich person. Kel'Thulzad, prior to becoming a servant of the Lich King, didn't really share Lich King's views or ambitions. . That without the Lich king the Scourge will become an even greater threat than before. I remember reading in Chronicles Volume 3 - about when Bolvar was shirking his responsibilities and witnessed the deal made with Sylvanas and the ValKyr - panicked, then tried to reaffirm his grip on them but the bargain had already been struck and they were released from his grasp - which is when he realised he had a role to play, taking the burden of the crown more seriously onward. Unless I missed it, it was never stated by an entity that knows how the lich king works. After Arthas is defeated, there is one clear choice for the new King: Bolvar Fordragon. On top of the spire, the Lich King encased Tirion in a block of ice . true, ture. All this The Scourge will destroy everything was just pure nonsense. This would serve to make the undead basically shambling corpses and largely harmless. Cookie Notice Granted, the story of the Forsaken should have involved Sylvanas poaching and freeing recruits from Bolvar rather than raising new ones with Valkyr. In truth, the only reason we beat the Lich King at all was literal divine intervention by the Light. Which it does but the current situation is unknown. Arthas, if not stopped and given time couldve easily wiped out Azeroth. This burgeoning race would slowly grow to present its own "threat" (although I'd imagine that it wouldn't actually lead to action on their part, more of a perceived threat). Sounds like a good way to ensure job security to me. Reddit, Inc. 2023. I doubt you could come up with a story like this on your own. Of course that is wishful thinking. Can someone please explain to me? However, Tirion Fordring reminds players that, indeed, there must ALWAYS be a "Lich King" to lead the Scourge, for if left without a leader, they would run rampant and destroy all living beings on Azeroth. Cookie Notice Whats going on here? Glitch is, I believe, that when you use your hero power on a minion and then turn it into a golden the golden keeps the reborn perk permanently A Lich king wearing that helm Nerzhul in it or not. New replies are no longer allowed. On another, but more related, side note- I'm actually not sure I even understand the threat of a mindless Scourge army. At the same time, you'd see the Forsaken questioning why they had to bear the burden of protecting the living kingdoms when they're viewed with such revulsion. Theres more to the scourge than mindless throngs of zombies. Considering the first 2 lost contrl from the Lich King. In the final battle of Icecrown Citadel, adventurers fight and eventually defeat the Lich King. Arthas the remaining human part of him held back the Scourge against Nerzhul. NEW PATRON: Nickel AP - Lore Addicts of the Beard NEW MEMBER: Yoursolosquad - Initiate of the Beard NEW SUB: Uchiha Madara DONATE NOW: https://mercury.strea. Arthas realized he was going to lose and played us like fiddles. We are able to kill the scourge, that was never a part of the story that we couldn't. Wimbert-die-aldor August 6, . His combination of tankiness, damage, slows. I am quite sure theyre being taken care of. I dont read every quests text and i dont read warcraft universe books. It takes Bolvar most of his willpower just to hold the Scourge back, I don't think he could command them like you think. I mean every expansion needs a threat which can be fought and with that you need villains you can get rid off. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Experience the battle through the raid: Icecrown Citadel. Exactly this. Same with gear. She was being dominated by the Jailer at the time, and. Reddit, Inc. 2023. Indeed. Its a rather valid argument - The Valkyr were part of the Scourge. I need to know lol. Given how the Lich King getting blasted from the other side of the world made half the Scourge in Lordaeron break free and the Lich King getting hit with a shiny sword made the Ebon Blade break free, the idea that the Lich King outright dying would only make the Scourge aN eVeN gReAtEr ThReAt was already idiotic back then. In fact, he would have appreciated the increased number of souls being sent to the Maw in the case of a Scourge attack upon the living beings of Azeroth. Perhaps well get a Lich Queen. Arthas is one of the oldest characters in Heroes of the Storm.. and to this day he is still one of the strongest. what? If gearing is the only incentive of playing the game design is terrible. I mean, there HAD to be a lich king. In Wraths ending cinematic, there was this kind of iconic quote There must always be a lich king. Ive always been reluctant to believe that without a Lich King controlling the Undead we would have been overrun in record time. I mean, to be fair, it was just a human NPC that said that. no, please dont. Trolls have probably been mummifying their dead since well before the Night Elves committed widespread genocide against everything on the planet in the War of the Ancients. Also, from what we saw in that Kyrian quest that took us to Redridge, the Scourge are loose on Azeroth. This never happened, presumably because a part of Arthas's old self was holding back the dominant persona of the Lich King. As were many Lich. Thats more personal Sylvanas saying the thread of scourge is no more. Part of his power was drawing from the souls bound within so yes it is entirely possible he knew something Sylvannas didnt. But like, you can spare (if you can call spare) dead to attack the Paladin Order Hall and the Scarlet Crusade, but not the Tomb of Sargeras? The escalation is horrible idea tbh. I just OK just give me a minute, Ill be OK.. Insanity is repeating the same action and expecting different results. By that logic, Sylvanas also knew how it worked because her soul was severed by it. I think they are implying that without the Lich king the Jailer is taking control of the scourge. Reddit, Inc. 2023. What if Bolvar had another purpose for being at the top of ICC at the moment the heroes arrived, not just because the Lich King was trying to convert him but if he was there in case all things went wrong with his plan. An instrument of free will. Im still just pissed Bolvar and the Death Knights never did an assault on the Burning Legion how they did the Scarlet Crusade during the DK starting questline that takes place back in Wotlk. Because there will be no Lich king to hold them in line. For more information, please see our He didnt send Scourge to Orgrimmar and Stormwind to sell freaking vacuums. Frankly I think it sounds ridiculous that the races of Azeroth couldnt handle a zerg rush of 0 tactic mindless zombies. According to the Wowpedia article on the subject (under this header it reads: the Scourge command structure all but wiped out. Better kill everything rather than have the void lords have their way with all existence. Talking about a 'prophecy' which is 100% Blizzard right there - play all there modern games, they always manage to squeeze-in a prophecy/legend somewhere, like that makes things better. With the number of cataclysmic and apocalyptic scenarios weve handled by now, Im sure we could mop up the remaining Scourge, and take out Bolvar. The Plan would be that if the lich king was defeated by the heroes a spirit that the heroes and others would trust would appear and lie, he would say that there must always be a Lich King, then Bolvar the converted Death knight would put on the Helm and tell everyone to just leave and keep it a secret, this way the Lich King would guarantee that if he was defeated he would have the time needed to recover his strength and fool everyone into thinking they had defeated the Lich King. Has there ever been any canonical proof to this? Say there wasn't a Lich King. It put a huge stain on the expansion for me. In Wraths ending cinematic, there was this kind of iconic quote There must always be a lich king. It wasn't out of any quest for eternal glory or wish to be a man of legend. I am confused by this. Regardless of whatever else, the Scourge is running amok on Azeroth. "There must always be a Lich King". Are we just taking what a ghost/spirit says at face value? They're basically zombies, but less threatening since the average scourge unit can't actually cause others to become undead. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Except the scourge in Azeroth now wandering without a leader. Kind of like how Sargeras and Illidan (and the Titans to a lesser degree) were locked way to be used again in the future. Not completely destroying the content from that last one. We handled the rampant scourge in the prepatch pretty well. But if Bolvar now has total control over the scourge.couldn't he just wipe them all out? Then just cordon off the area with a fleet of ships and several bases in the sea. Before anyone starts, I know this is ancient. There was still the will of the jailer dominating the helm too. This subreddit is for discussions about the lore of Warcraft! What is there to fear? We kinda forgot about Bolvars original job. So gameplay doesnt really support this idea of uncontroled scourge being threat when we literaly wipe out entire icecrown with 1 finger.
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