Personally - I don't mind if I get killed level 1. Korokai 1 in 8
Just did the Maths - even Valeros with an expert save / ability 14 and 20 HP (so inherently survivable) has a 1 in 127 chance to die here. Pathfinder 2e is a cooperative game. Unlike other organized play systems or GenCon when I was a kid, where you just show up with the appropriate level character and play an adventure with that character, PFS is much more like a living campaign, like the kind I build for my friends. I personally love all the changes of PF2, Massive Damage is my only gripe. The hinged forearm is made of leather and metal. If thats what you are looking for, you want Skyrim, not Pathfinder. But do those things ever realistically appear in PFS scenarios? Prosthetics Pathfinder I'm still in favor of eliminating or changing the massive damage rule, but I don't think that eliminating the massive damage rule will solve the problem that you bring up. I think this is essentially the same as doing away with the massive damage rule altogether - since people have pretty much shown it's very difficult, if not impossible, to apply past Level 1. Pathfinder 2e is also designed to be a smart game. (Monster attack so hero points can't help). Is there a rule in 2e for massive damage or instant death? Your character is part of a team, there is never a time when you are going succeed in an encounter on your own, even in moderate ones. The stories build on one another, often leading to a conclusion of great to excellent story telling. Understanding teamwork doesnt mean you have to be the Avengers. We GMs do not design adventures with the goal of killing our players' characters (or X% of characters or N deaths over K sessions). This is especially prevalent on traps present in low level scenarios, where massive damage can have over a 20% chance of occurring at level 1. The flat checks to advance the Dying value are meant to give the unconscious player (who can't take actions) a chance to survive. A GM fudging is not mercy from the numbers, its just someone clumsily attempting to hold back a giant kickboxer named Arithmetic so they dont have to clean your blood from the ring. You can join us on for direct discussion on discord.gg/pathfinder2e. That is what I thought - until I killed my first PC. Weaknesses and 'Instances' of Damage question Weaknesses and 'Instances' of Damage question If they fail their save, announce lower damage or whatever. Your character is part of a team, there is never a time when you are going succeed in an encounter on your own, even in moderate ones. Archived post. Pathfinder To be completely honest, the rest of the players did terribly. Again - I assume a critical hit. Fighter - Double Slice - d6 fatal d10 Pick | d4 agile fatal d8 Pick. Yes - a hydraulic push or flaming sphere can instakill anyone up to 18 hp. WebPathfinder 2e damage calculator. Massive Damage
WebThere are immediate life-changing consequences to losing any limb, the details of which vary based on which limb has been severed. Pathfinder 2e Is it true? Massive Damage
The baricade trap has no extra damage on a crit fail, but still does 4d6+8 damage on a fail, maxing at 32 damage to a level 1 character with a DC 22 reflex. Pathfinder The monster has three. At level 1 he has 15 AC and 16 HP. you are. If you are a [relatively] high-hit point character the risks are significantly low. Ill break it down as simply as I can. The kinds of damage covered by this are acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic damage. Edit: Having a hero point left at this stage increases your chance of survival by a factor of 3 to 6 - depending on which char. You all have to work together to set up openings for each other to make it happen. Pathfinder The monsters numbers are higher than yours, you need to raise yours or lower the monsters. I've earned 120 AcP, and I've made my Once-Ever Hobgoblin character," then in the first 45 minutes of a scenario they crit fail their save against a damaging trap that rolls high and results in a massive damage death. IMO, the chances of death in 2E are already so incredibly low, even the massive damage rule is not going to have a significant impact. Table 114 below provides the Hardness, Hit Points, Broken Threshold, and example items for some types of common materials. Sajan 1 in 51
(Well, technically you could wield the large weapon while not raging to not gain the damage, but you'll never actually do that since there is no round limit on rage anymore.) If we die we die. This one I saw kill a level 1 PC at a table I was playing from massive damage. This can kill most wizard and sorcerer builds instantly, if they're foolish enough to go under first. With the regular dying rules, several things have had to go wrong before a PC actually dies. 577 4.0. It just means if you are a [relatively] low-hit point character, you need to be tactically smart, stay out of reach of dangerous enemies, and not lead the party through unknown environs. Calculate, graph, and compare different classes, strikes, and spells. The reason the massive damage rule differs is that there's only one gating item, so a GM does something and - boom - dead. This subreddit is for anything related to the Pathfinder Second Edition tabletop role-playing game. Class-specific Feats & Features - increases damage by granting actions that Strike more effectively, or adding/increasing damage dice under specific circumstances. I only realized the issue after the fact when I calculated in my first PC kill that the character I targeted had a nearly 17% chance of insta-death. They moved up too far (so it's partly the character's fault), but the GM rolled at natural 20 (so it's partly the GM's fault), and their teammates didn't help (so it's partly the party's fault), and then they rolled at natural 1 (so it's partly the player's fault). At higher levels, death isn't as bad, as we have fame available to buy resurrections if we need them, or Breath of Life, etc. damage Artstation user Aldebaran Dobrica created this Orc Inquisitor above. Second, smaller question weakness damage, multiplied on a crit? This is because a monster that is higher level than your party has a large mathematical advantage, and while you can argue with me, you cant argue with math. The Loss of a Body Part This is why I tend to roll in secret when dealing with n00bs rather than rolling in the open. Better wear your 'big-boy' pants." The rule doesn't even have to be changed. When the thing charged and entered his reach, he tripped it. To be fair, its the very first thing the OP said so its a fundamental part of the discussion. WebMassive Damage (Optional Rule): If you ever sustain a single attack that deals an amount of damage equal to half your total hit points (minimum 50 points of damage) or more and it doesnt kill you outright, you must make a DC 15 Fortitude save. :-D. Low levels have always been the most impacted by a crit, PF2 doesn't change from PF1 in that aspect. The hazard does does 4d6+10 and can still the kill the wizard (as can the non-leveled hazard actually, but only on max damage and a crit fail). Im sorry, but if the impetus is no one likes to die then just eliminate character death. A lot of systems have trained players that anything that isnt dealing the most damage possible is a waste. My DM and I have talked about an intro for them along with an encounter that will end up showing them off quite well. NO ACCESS WILL BE GIVEN. Not everyone reads this. There are a few rules to follow and they bleed into each other. I feel like that's a balanced mechanism of death. A variant of the Light theme, based on the Rulebooks. 2. | |
11 | 50.0% | Droogami
In 1E, massive damage had the caveat of being a MINIMUM of 50 damage. Sure, he could have failed the trip, but if he had opted to attack instead, he could have failed it just as easily with far less potential gain. Here's my explanation. The cave collapses on you? Even the most laid-back groups are going to contend with tough encounters sooner or later in Pathfinder 2e. HP | Killed | PreGen
Don't twist my words. The massive damage rule is a nice addition to 2e, it adds an element to danger to all encounters. WebEnvironmental Damage - Rules - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database Close Deck Character Creation + Ancestries Archetypes Backgrounds Classes Skills Equipment + All Equipment Armor Shields Weapons Feats + All Feats General General (No Skill) Skill Game Mastery + Afflictions Creatures Hazards Rules + All Rules As it stands you almost never lose gold or fame, etc let alone die permanently. If he gets critted (which is the hard part) then his chance to die instandly is 22.4% in these circumstances. Damage Double it. Fighter - 1 Power Attack - d12 Sword. I use the Pregens. The odds of this happening are actually 5% (19+ on the d20 and 6+ on the d12), so highly unlikely, but it CAN happen. 15 | 9.3% | Korokai, Feiya, Seoni, Fumbus
First, its only a problem in a few adventures out of a growing library and even then it only happens rarely. This bleed damage increases to 1d4 on a critical hit. WebEnvironmental Damage - Rules - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database Close Deck Character Creation + Ancestries Archetypes Backgrounds Classes Skills Equipment + All Equipment Armor Shields Weapons Feats + All Feats General General (No Skill) Skill Game Mastery + Afflictions Creatures Hazards Rules + All Rules At level 1. The example the text gives sites a weakness to a specific type of material along with a type of physical damage it is made of. Do the Maths:
Plus there was a really easy save associated with it, where most people would fail only on a 1. This thread is archived This bleed damage increases to 1d4 on a critical hit. The Inquisitor is yet another Pathfinder class that is fueled by religious fervor. The fact that it appears to only occur in combat with Level 1 characters suggests it is not working as intended. Pathfinder Class-specific Feats & Features - increases damage by granting actions that Strike more effectively, or adding/increasing damage dice under specific circumstances. You die instantly if you ever take more than 50 HP and this damage is equal to or greater than double your maximum Hit Points in one blow. Pathfinder If this saving throw fails, you die regardless of your current hit points. learn more: https://reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/148ks6u/indefinite_blackout_next_steps_polling_your/jo0pqzk/ Feiya 1 in 8
But if thats how you win, you might as well dump whiteout all over your character sheet and just flip a coin the next time you see a dragon. Pathfinder The fight could have very easily been a slaughter. WebOn a successful beak Strike, the target takes 1 persistent bleed damage. Easy/Hard mode implies that there is a different level of risk of character death for "easy mode" compared to "hard mode." You keep this up, and you'll not be able to advance in the campaign's story. The risk of death should be more common at high levels, not low levels. She strides, strikes, and boom, Ezren is dead. But oh no, the Barbarian also had the No Escape feat. Suggested
If this saving throw fails, you die regardless of your current hit points. (Well, technically you could wield the large weapon while not raging to not gain the damage, but you'll never actually do that since there is no round limit on rage anymore.) That's your damage. Thats the balancing factor a single monster has that allows it to contend with four-player characters. Complex tasks, such as combat, item creation, riding, and climbing, need to be relearned completely. The wearer still suffers the penalties for losing a hand. WebThere are immediate life-changing consequences to losing any limb, the details of which vary based on which limb has been severed. Double move, 1 strike - 15 (enough to crit), followed by a 6 (on a d8) for 28 damage - character halfling witch oracle, Con 12 (13 HP) dead. Wrist/hand prosthetics can be attached to its end. 15 38.2% Korokai, Feiya, Seoni, Fumbus
The glittering hoard of a terrifying dragon. The hinged forearm negates the wearers penalties for losing an arm at the elbow. You only take the penalty if you are wielding the large weapon. This one is more complex to show it is a bad solution. Pathfinder Pathfinder Damage Calculator My goal, when I write an adventure or campaign is to get my players through it to the end (while giving them an entertaining time). There are edge cases on level 1 where the double HP damage ruling has some (in my view) unexpected consequences. WebEnvironmental Damage - Rules - Archives of Nethys: Pathfinder 2nd Edition Database Close Deck Character Creation + Ancestries Archetypes Backgrounds Classes Skills Equipment + All Equipment Armor Shields Weapons Feats + All Feats General General (No Skill) Skill Game Mastery + Afflictions Creatures Hazards Rules + All Rules Pathfinder 2E If there's enought of a problem to need to plan ahead to fudge rolls, there's enough of a problem to need to fix the root cause and not use encounter design that doesn't work at 1st level for CP totals that are full of 1st level characters. Fighter - Double Slice - d6 fatal d10 Pick | d4 agile fatal d8 Pick. If thats what you are looking for, you want Skyrim, not Pathfinder. I don't think it's quite a full match to compare these directly. Is it true? WebHero Points. The very first encounter, we climb on board some boat, a monster pops up in the middle of the party, goes first, crits me, double my hp, instant death. Note that this is a very different thing from the optional massive damage rule from earlier games, which could result in the death of a high level character who still had a positive number of hit points. Its also about attempting to tilt the odds in your favor in the first place instead of just throwing spells like dirty laundry until a questionably crusty sock sticks. Its close enough to the same thing, just with less math, or a different kind of math at least. All my prep work was for nothing if they keep replacing the cast with new characters that I kill off so that the farm boy/girl hero's journey that the original cast began is finished by some random group of high level heroes created piecemeal over the past 4 weeks because I kept killing them off and now none of the players has an investment in the story. to 50 Yes, this is exactly it. Fighter - 2 Strike - d12 Sword. If we think that the damage output of enemies vs level 1 characters should be changed, I think there would be more support for that. 2 | +12 range 60 | 37.5% | 25.9% | 16.2% | 9.3% | 4.6%
Or to trust that the initiative-shifting mechanic of dropping to Dying gave your teammates a chance to stabilize you. Low level PCs are disproportionately affected by this rule. 3 | +12 reach 10 | 50% | 37.5% | 25% | 12.5% | 0%
Just to add - Ezren is actually quite sturdy with 16 HP (human, 8, Con 14). The issue here is that level 1 (and maybe, level 2) are the only places where it can happen "by accident", and I don't think that's the intention. Thats a massive win, even if you dont deal any damage. The monsters numbers are higher than yours, you need to raise yours or lower the monsters. 43 Creatures are resistant to it and nothing is weak to Poison. Is it true? NO ACCESS WILL BE GIVEN. This is why spells that bring you back are higher level, because at that point things get more and more deadly. Pathfinder 2e is a cooperative game. Pathfinder Fumbus 1 in 11
11 68.8% Droogami
577 4.0. This becomes really bad if scenario scaling allows a heavily over level boss at CP totals of 10 or 12, that can be a fully 1st level party, so that there is no character who could be "in front" that isn't in the instant death range. Then they use Demoralize, and then gets the hell away from the monster, so it has to chase them. Damage Note that this is a very different thing from the optional massive damage rule from earlier games, which could result in the death of a high level character who still had a positive number of hit points. Then as you deal that damage to the creature, is up to the creature (kinda) to add/substract weaknessess or resistances; its weakness or resistance 5 to slashing was never part of your hit so it didn't get doubled. Remember, the designers wrote the rules such that the GM is expected to tweak them for their game. And before you tell me - but Freya shouldn't be in the front. Youre a 4-star PFS1E GM. I feel like designers forget this rule when designing scenarios. All rights reserved. The more reliable way to win is by using your action advantage to take away, or at least soften the monsters mathematical advantage. I have to admit that set my initial opinion of pf2 very low. Here's my explanation. It would charge in for a ton of damage, put distance between the party with its superior speed, and do it again. Complex tasks, such as combat, item creation, riding, and climbing, need to be relearned completely. It can give your entire party momentum to deal more damage, inflict potent conditions and take less damage. WebOn a successful beak Strike, the target takes 1 persistent bleed damage. 1) Softball / run it in secret, Not a good solution. IF you are running for level one PCs and IF there are n00b players and IF there is a BBEG with a mathematically significant chance of one-shotting them, then turn on the whisper mode (or whatever you VTT of choice calls it). All rights reserved. Pathfinder 2e is a cooperative game. I absolutely agree - there has to be a risk. 1 If the BBEG happens to critically hit the PCs, you can easily fudge it to be a regular hit or reduce the damage slightly to prevent the insta-kill effect if you feel that strongly about it. If you're looking at the game in terms of "easy mode" and "hard mode," I think you're already going in the wrong direction. (Say a human wizard with 12 con, 14 dex) That's a 40% chance to crit with a 20% to roll 15 or more damage. Assume that there's an effect that causes Amiri, who's already raging, to get confused, and Ezren just so happens to be the closest target. Is there a rule in 2e for massive damage or instant death? WebPathfinder 2e damage calculator. Its better than having org play rules that differ from the CRB. The table has separate entries for thin items (like shields), ordinary items (like armor), and reinforced or durable structures (such as walls). Reddit, Inc. 2023. 22 4.2% Amiri, Harsk. 18 | 0.5% | Lini
In Society? Pathfinder 2E (assuming 5 HP). A PC at wounded 2 and no hero points can immediately die if crit, but that PC has gone down twice already. If the GM doesnt fudge in your favor, this is where you will likely have a player character death, or worse, a total party wipe. To put it into context - for half the PreGen the chance is worse (approx twice worse) as rolling a nat 1 to just be dead. Your character is part of a team, there is never a time when you are going succeed in an encounter on your own, even in moderate ones. The premise is "No one likes to die so why is this mechanic in the game affecting low level character with no recourse if they do die, and not high level characters with access of spells and resources to mitigate the effects of dying". It's much harder to calculate these odds, so I'll just say he has a 35% chance to crit Ezren, and does 30.5 average damage on a crit. WebThere are immediate life-changing consequences to losing any limb, the details of which vary based on which limb has been severed. Pathfinder 2e 14 Poison, the first damage type that will do something against the majority of the Bestiary with 'only' 226 out of the 1155 creatures immune to it. Baseline. Lets take Ezren for example. Then as you deal that damage to the creature, is up to the creature (kinda) to add/substract weaknessess or resistances; its weakness or resistance 5 to slashing was never part of your hit so it didn't get doubled. Table 114 below provides the Hardness, Hit Points, Broken Threshold, and example items for some types of common materials. First off, falling damage is something that can easily kill you from massive damage, at any level, as it caps out at 750dmg. 15 | 35% | 40%
This could be every bit as simple as just getting out of its reach so that it has to burn an action to get to you. The Blackbird, also called the Black Stone Violin, is a full-size playable violin made of black diabase after drawings by Antonio Stradivari (Stradivarius), but with technical modifications to allow it to be played.